"That's interesting," I laugh, noticing a familiar icon, "I thought that you didn't use the cruising apps!""I don't :-)," replies K with a big smile on his face, "well, not for cruising anyway!"
I have no idea what he means by that, after all, cruising is what web-sites like gaydar and apps like grindr are designed for. But since I've spotted grindr, he brings up the app to let me have a look.
"Actually I wasn't going to show you this," continues K, "but if we're going to become boyfriends it's much easier if we're completely honest with each other."
I certainly agree with that. But as soon as I see his grindr profile I burst out laughing again.
"That's not you," I say looking at his profile pic, "it's not even close! The guy in your profile is clearly Caucasian, but you're Asian!!"
"I know," replies K with a cheeky tone in his voice, "but I don't use grindr to meet anyone, I've never done that. For me it just for fun, just to talk to people and see how far they'll go to try and have sex with the guy in my profile :-)."
"But that means that you're wasting the time of all the guys that you talk to," I say, protesting at his behaviour.
"All these apps are so full of time wasters anyway that one more makes no difference."
"Hmmmm, perhaps, but it still doesn't help! Anyway, I'm glad to see that you made me one of your favourites :-)," I say, spotting my profile.
"Yeah, I found you," he says grinning, "and I've found some other friends here too. Actually, I don't think your profile pic is very good!"
"Some guys like it," I answer, unperturbed.
Soon he starts showing me some of his victims that he's been chatting with.
"Look at what some of these guys do," he says, bringing up one of his chats from a few days ago, "this guy sent me pic of his erect cock covered in cum when he's got no idea who I really am. This kind of behaviour is so wrong! That's one reason why I don't use the apps for cruising. I want to get to know someone very well before they get to see my cum covered cock."
"Just for the record," I say slightly defensively, "I never send rude pics of me like that when I use the apps. If guys want to see my naughty bits then they have to meet me in person! Anyway, where did you get the pics that you use for this fake profile?"
"They're just pics from other profiles, or pics that guys sent me," he answers in a matter of fact way, "If someone sends me a pic, then I reckon that it's a present to me, so I can do whatever I want with it."
As he shows me a few more chats I notice some inconsistencies in his replies.
"In one of the previous chats that you showed me you said you were a bottom," I say, "but there you say that you're a top."
"I just tell them what they want to hear," replies K, "so if they're a bottom I'll say I'm a top and so on. I was out for the evening with a friend a few months ago, and he kept checking grindr. I thought it was all a bit unnecessary and impolite when he was out for the evening with me, especially when he disappeared for more than half an hour to hook-up! That was when I wondered whether I could use grindr for fun too, but as I said, just as a game to see how far guys will go to try and get me into bed."
"Not you," I say, correcting him, "the guy in your profile!"
"Yeah, whatever! Once or twice I've been contacted by guys that I know, and that can be quite funny :-)."
I find this behaviour quite questionable. Just because there are a lot of guys who waste people's time on the cruising apps and web-sites, I don't think that justifies what K is doing. In any case, I guess that it's just a reminder of something everyone needs to remember. When you contact and chat to people online, you can never be sure who's really on the other end until you've met them face to face!
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25 comments:
Your friend K is sick, perverse and that is a very horrible thing to do to other people. Sex and sexual desire is a powerful force in human nature and for someone to manipulate others like that, really has questions to ask about himself and his values.
Even if these apps/websites are often caricatured to be inhuman or impersonal, there is no reason to potentially hurt and play around with guys who might be genuine.
I am disgusted and don't even see the "funny" side.
All I can say, anonymous commenter (whoever you are), is that I doubt K is the only person who plays with the apps like that.
GB xxx
K's behavior is cruel, immature and manipulative. It's funny how people behave so badly on the Web, which gives folks anonymity. He seems cool with you but be wary. Peeps that about stuff like that will lie a out anything.
Immanuel at www.dlconfessionssequel.com
I have very little tolerance for people who go masquerading under false identities, lie etc. What can his motive be? This is basically just mischievous fun at other people's expense, and that isn't a sign of good character! This from a guy who seemed shocked when you told him about your hook-up with someone else. Doesn't seem quite so pure as the driven snow now, does he? I think you're right to have misgivings about this. One thing I've learned over the years is that if you start to see "red flags" and hypocrisy in someone's behaviour, you shouldn't be too quick to dismiss them, otherwise you might end up kicking yourself later on!
PS The other thing is - if he's effectively cockteasing random guys (apparently as a form of light entertainment), is he perhaps doing that to you too? You said last time that you haven't engaged in any "activities" yet. And I find this part very worrying indeed: "If someone sends me a pic, then I reckon that it's a present to me, so I can do whatever I want with it." I hope that doesn't include blackmailing the sender! The guy seems to be seriously lacking in principles, so I'd proceed with great caution...
It is indeed disturbing. Somehow I have a feeling that your relationship with him won't end well. Hopefully, I am wrong.
Just crass. Dump him!
two possible interpretations here :
- maybe he just needs to look at what is around and 'flirt' a bit, all undercover. after all I can understand this need - even when in a relationship - to see who's around , if just not too feel lonely, and to know you are a part of something, a wider community, set of people...
- he is a manipulative person, he lies about his picture, he tells these guys what they want to hear, he lies to you (possibly ?)( there are gaps in the story..). Sounds like there is a lot of manipulation going on there. wonder if it something deeper than that. a common trait of gays is narcissism and seduction. also traits of sociopaths...
Danderous.
Yes, you're right GB. K definitely isn't the only one who behaves that way on gay hook up apps like Grindr but I think he's also hiding something behind your back. I don't buy the whole 'he doesn't use gay apps' story because if he's got that app on his iPad, he'd definitely used it to cruise previously. He might no longer use it since he's dating you at the moment but he's not as pure as you think he is. Everyone can put on a facade to be someone else.
Nonetheless, I find it a bit distasteful that he's using a caucasian's profile to bait guys on Grindr. If he really wants to play mind games with random guys on Grindr (for whatever reasons), he could use a picture of himself. The fact that he doesn't suggests a couple of things. Firstly, he could be another closet case, like ex-bf T. Seriously, have you not had enough with your previous experience? Secondly, it's probable that he's not very comfortable with his Asian identity.
De facto, Asians don't normally get a lot of hits on gay apps with an overwhelming presence of caucasian males. For him to mask himself as a person of another ethnicity seems to suggest that he knows this and he's seeking "cyber retribution" from unknowing victims. Perhaps he's motivated by unpleasant experience from his past.
I could be over analysing the situation but GB, when something smells fishy, it usually means something isn't quite right. Good luck with falling in love with K!
Seems like I am the only one who doesn't take this too seriously. Some people just like to chat and flirt online, could be like a psychological experiment. To be honest I have chatted to many people in grindr and quite a lot of them use other people's photos etc.
@Anonymous: there's a difference between chatting/flirting and deception. You can conduct a psychological experiment without using someone else's photos and pretending to be them. And I just don't buy the "other people do it, so it must be okay" excuse. It makes no difference how many people do it. We all know there are dodgy people like this out there, sadly for GB he is dating one right now and seems to be keen on him but I hope he will have the self-confidence to realize his concerns are spot-on.
"Taking things too seriously" is perhaps the weakest defence and most invalid excuse when discussing something like this post. A dismissal of discussing ethics (yes I think posts like this are fruitful discussions of gay values) is the sad story of how some people will forever remain shallow.
Have I just taken your comment too seriously? I sure did.
Hi GB,
I really enjoy reading your blog.
We all know (or should do), that you don't really know who you are meeting until you meet them. But we all, at times, take things as being truthful, so it is something important to be reminded of.
I think K's behaviour is a bit questionable - but only for the photos of the guy he's using to masquerade as himself.
I'd hate to see a profile on some site that someone had set up using my photos. Personally, I don't do the hook ups thing, so do use Grindr, etc.
But this situation you describe has happened to a friend of mine. My friend saw a profile that wasn't his but had his photos on and at first was slightly complemented. But then when another two popped up and he began to get annoyed. He started reporting them as fakes. So there's probably more people doing what K is doing, than we think.
Hope you write soon,
A x
gay men tend to be effeminate. as far as i can tell the "gay accent" is just the "female accent". isn't this a turn off to other gay men? i know that with straight women a good looking man with a girly voice is unattractive.
but maybe gay men and straight women aren't attracted to the same things.
I really think that you ought to be questioning your relationship with this guy. I think that "quesstionable" is the kindest word you can use about this behaviour. He is deliberately lying to see how people behave in response to lies that he tells them and just sits back coolly and watches. Knowing that somebody did that would certainly make me think less well of them and question how far I would trust them in my life.
You've also described his behaviour over intimacy with you. You have obviously found that appealing, partly because you have become so besotted about him that you are prepared to let him set the terms on which you interact. It may be that he's taken this line out of a genuine moral/philosophical approach. But I find it difficult to square this with his behaviour on these sites. Another possible explanation is that he's seen your keenness on him and is stretching you out to see how far you will go. Has he been enjoying teasing you? It must give a great sense of power to have something that you're looking for and to be able to deny you without repercussions. Is that love?
I go back also to your entry about the row you had over money. You painted that as though it was entirely your fault. I wonder if it was. It may not have helped that you were drunk but this is a topic that you were absolutely right to raise. It's a trait of very manipulative people that they seize opportunities to put you in the wrong and to make it more difficult for you to raise difficult subjects later on.
I'm not suggesting that he's doing this in some sort of deliberately calculating macchiavellian way but I wonder how balanced he is psychologically - you say he has less money than you. does he has some sense of inferiority, things he hasn't achieved which he thinks he should? Are you thinking you might be able to help him and support him? If so, be very careful. He will get you in a position where it will become very difficult for you to extricate yourself.
I've been in a similar situation. I stayed in it too long.
I'm only going on what you say and I may well be getting it entirely wrong. However, If I'm right, then I think you should try not to let your obsession with this guy overcome your judgement. You could end up causing both of you a lot of pain if you leave it too long to get on. You're obviously a really attractive, honest, nice guy. There'll be lots of others out there for you and you can surely do better than a guy that deliberately lies on the internet to see how far people will go.
Mark
This guy's behavior is really questionable. I definitely don't want to see you get hurt. You deserve a better guy than him!
Recently just cheated by someone who used a fake id.
"I just tell them what they want to hear"
Is totally true,I heard what I want to hear,and I admit that this is my own fault for being stupid. I am so sorry,but I couldn't accept K's behavior. Is so immature and irresponsible.
GB is an adult. If he wants a relationship with K, let him be. He knows better what he's getting into. All these discussions concerning K is not going to change GB's mind if he's really head over heels in love with K. In fact, I feel like there's a character assassination campaign that's happening here. As opposed to pointing out how inappropriate K's behaviour was and how dodgy he seems, I think everyone should take a step back and respect the choices made by two grown men should they enter a relationship. We all live and learn and no one's a saint. So it's best if we reserve the judgement of a person's character based solely on one mono faceted story.
Yes, that's fine. But if GB doesn't want us to comment, he doesn't have to post this stuff. He invites comments and it's understandable that he'll get them.
Incidentally, K knows about this column. I wonder what he feels about being discussed like this even though it is anonymised. Personally, it would stop me having a relationship with GB.
Mark
Thanks so much for all your thoughts, guys. It's been fascinating reading all the responses, and I confess that I am surprised at how very negative all the comments are. I have already discussed this issue with K and I'm hopeful that he'll never use grindr like this again.
Regarding the recent comments, thank you Pete Hop :-). The fact that K has indulged in this *questionable* behaviour isn't going to make me stop loving him. I've certainly done lots of bad stuff before, such as all the cheating I did in connection with my original boyfriend (boyfriend number 1). Anonymous blogging is very cathartic, a kind of modern day confessional which is an antidote to the mainstream social media where everyone usually makes sure that everything they post shows them off in the best possible light! The old biblical quote "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind.
Mark (the most recent commenter) is right in that if I didn't want any comments then I don't have to post, and in fact even if I do post I can switch comments off. I take the view that when someone knows about my blog, if they don't want me to post about stuff then it's a conversation that I'm more than happy to have. But so far, although I have told K about this blog, to my knowledge he hasn't gone looking for it and he certainly hasn't asked me to avoid posting anything.
GB xxx
I'm not going to comment on the morality, but my (caucasian) husband died earlier this year and he always said he would go first and I would find me a nice/cute Oriental/Chinese/Thai boy. Having been dating since October, I find I'm not interested in the boys, but mainly men about 40 (20 years or so younger than me) though there are exceptions. So far, every guy I have met has been honest on his profile.
As for the "naughty bits" photos, I am had professional shoot in Singapore (done by a gorgeous local photographer, you may blush now Marcus) and the full frontals are available on request. Only about 5 or 6 have asked to see them, so either the idea of a naked 59 year old man is too repulsive or they're not interested.
So Manhunt, Fridae, etc, have been good to me, but I am wary of any profile. Sometimes the various photos do not look like the same person. How can I tell? Simple. I use my eyes and intuition, both valuable tools. Interestingly I am more drawn to the guys who have clothes on in all their main photos. That tells me there is more to them under the skin than under the sheets, and though sex matters, the spirit of the person is more important still.
MMM, very interesting topic.
I have always declined using apps as i don't like the way selection is to meet someone. Its like ordering my shoes from a catalog online.
I have tried online dating might you..sitting behind my computer chatting endlessly because i had nothing to do.. but was always not sure who you were talking to, and if the person really looks like it when you meet up...
that is why i prefer visiting gay saunas when i am single..you see how he moves, talks, looks and his energy that makes me physically attracted and stimulated... and want to meet him.
guess for everyone its different.
www.gay-athletic-sauna-visitor.blogspot.com
K needs to find some hobbies!
It's important that modes of communication for gay people (whether out or closeted) are kept honest by our whole community.
Without this we close opportunity for more people to accept & experiment who they are
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